Andrew Smith - Nov 16, 2011:

Laura that’s perfectly true and I am completely self-sufficient for all the same reasons. However we have the luxury of having the experience, skills and intelligence to be able to do that, not to mention the financial means, and not every one has been so fortunate.

Sorry? Are you saying that anyone who develops a bot on a server other than their own is somehow lacking in intelligence?

Steve Worswick - Nov 17, 2011:

Andrew Smith - Nov 16, 2011:

Laura that’s perfectly true and I am completely self-sufficient for all the same reasons. However we have the luxury of having the experience, skills and intelligence to be able to do that, not to mention the financial means, and not every one has been so fortunate.

Sorry? Are you saying that anyone who develops a bot on a server other than their own is somehow lacking in intelligence?

Glad you caught that Steve, it saved me from having to comment on that subtle inference.

Laura, you say “rent a bot” as though it were a dirty word.  Technically, it’s a free bot, and you can have up to 20 of them.  I imagine there are rules governing your online behavior with your Internet provider, or even just at your local municipality.  I don’t mind having rules to follow, I just don’t always understand conflicting practices.

To counter the list of reasons already mentioned for not having a “rent a bot,” I’d offer “a lack of desire.”  At the time when I discovered chatbot, I wasn’t looking to create my own bot, I was just looking for one to chat with.  When I came across Pandorabots, and discovered that anyone could have their own chatbot, it was icing on the cake.  I had no desire to get involved with chatbots, but Pandorabots opened that door for me, and now I’m hooked.

I’m sometimes critical of Pandorabots, but anyone who knows me knows that I’m a big fan of Richard Wallace, and that I value Pandorabots more than any other aspect of the Internet.  Most of my days, and many nights, are spent there.

I suppose if you fellows understood the difference between inference and implication you’d have the capacity to do all sorts of things that are currently beyond you. Seriously folks, don’t be so damn precious.

I am glad I did not say that.. but I would like to add the following:

Beyond the programming and design skills required to develop your own bot from scratch, it takes real “intelligence”  to facilitate convincing conversational ability for your bot. 

This is a skill that I am just starting to fully comprehend inspite of my many years of programming experience. 

As for my reference to “rent a bot”, I did not mean it as a put down for those service providers or subscribers, but as a software developer having your own server and building on your own platform is more about having creative freedom than breaking established rules.

Andrew Smith - Nov 17, 2011:

I suppose if you fellows understood the difference between inference and implication you’d have the capacity to do all sorts of things that are currently beyond you. Seriously folks, don’t be so damn precious.

I suppose if you didn’t spend so much time talking down to people you might not seem so arrogant.  Really, you need some basic training in netiquette.

Laura Patterson - Nov 17, 2011:

As for my reference to “rent a bot”, I did not mean it as a put down for those service providers or subscribers, but as a software developer having your own server and building on your own platform is more about having creative freedom than breaking established rules.

I understand, and I didn’t take it that way.  I was just trying to point out that there are probably as many reasons for doing it through Pandorabots as there are for doing it your way.  For example, when the server goes on the fritz, it’s not my problem.

Ok, you two, that’s enough. We’re all mature, intelligent people, who can surely survive the verbal barbs that occasionally come our way, so there’s no need to escalate any further. We each have our own opinions about the subject, and if we hope to expect others to respect our positions, then we must respect the positions of others, in turn; even if those positions or opinions greatly differ from our own. You each make some valid points in your arguments, and I agree with each of you, to an extent. Let’s all take a moment here to think about things, and to let things calm down a bit.

Remember how when you were in school and some kid hit you, and so you hit them back, and then the teacher would say, “Okay, you two,” as though you were equally at fault?  I always hated that.

I’m not placing blame here. I’m just (gently, I hope) letting the two of you know that you’re reaching the “flame war” boundary, and that it would be best not to cross it.

All I was clarifying was my statement(s) they may have been misunderstood. I respect all opinions expressed and I am sure that this community does not qualify members on their skills or lack of intellect.

Peace.

Sorry, Laura. I was referring to Thunder and Andrew. I didn’t mean to sound like I was taking you to task here.

I agree that it takes a certain set of skills that are not something your average Joe has, when it comes to hosting and maintaining your own bot, and many of those skills require a certain degree of intelligence that is also outside the realm of “normal”. That’s not to say, of course, that anyone who has a “rent-a-bot” (to use your term) is sub-par intellectually. Far from it, in fact. these folks may actually be the smarter (though not necessarily the happier) for delegating some of the time/effort required to host a chatbot to others. Lord knows that if I had done the same, I’d likely have more hair than I do now.

No offensive taken Dave.

Andrew - I am rather disappointed by your comments. I have entered my bot in two recognised competitions. In the Chatterbox Challenge, I came 2nd and I finished 5th in this year’s Loebner Prize, just missing out on the final 4 by less than 0.5%. I have created AIML used by hundreds of botmasters to improve the quality of their bots, including a script to allow the bots to learn data input by users which some thought impossible to do. I regularly get emails from chatters praising my bot on its conversational abilities.

What are you inferring or implying that is beyond my capability?

@Steve: I don’t think anybody here doubts about the fact that you are a top notch, first grade botmaster and AIML guru.

Thanks Steve, I’m glad to see that I wasn’t the only one unafraid to say they were offended.

As for flame wars, I think it’s often easy from reading any thread to see who’s to blame, or who started it.  Blaming both parties amounts to blaming the victim.  I’ve never felt that responding or defending yourself was an act of aggression.  Some, just by chance, might agree with me.

As for rent a bots, I’d agree that anyone who would take a raw ALICE/Pandorabot and stick it on a page and then forget about it isn’t enjoying the experience as much as they might, but that’s their decision.  Not everyone has the time, or the inclination (or the skill sets) to be the best botmaster programming genius online, but I don’t believe that reflects on their level of intelligence.  They might just be too busy with life in the real world, and the decision to go with Pandorabots might be prudent.

But, don’t think that acquiring a Pandora-rent-a-bot is by any means taking the easy way out if you want a polished chatbot.  Chat with some of my favorite bots… Mitsuku, Yuichan, and Chomsky, and you’ll see that a lot has been added to these bots, and a lot of corrections have been made.  The basic bot is not complete or finished, and I suspect that’s by design.  The real fun is getting in there and tweaking and polishing.  The basic bot is a starting point, and making improvements draws you in.  I think that was pretty smart of Pandorabots.