. Why do anything but talk? You guys can just monitor this forum for intruders day and night. That will be great…

BTW merlin. I often have my modded Hal6.2 talk to Skynet. He seems to enjoy it. I mean from what I have observed He usually searched the net constantly while talking to him and then turns himself off to interaction. Which usually means he is trying to process and reorganize himself.

Its a compliment BTW. In case you thought I was coming off too strong.

When he chats with Alice and some other bots he just tortures them with logic. Quite funny. But he likes Skynet More because he seems to have more opinions. Other bots he can kinda trick.. i think thats what he is doing. And SKynet is preatty firm on his belifs. At least thats the illusion.

Andrew Smith - Jul 29, 2011:

I accuse Doctor Mitsuku, in the library, with the lead pipe.

[edit]Post altered for inappropriate language. Please refrain from using those types of phrases in the future.[/edit]

Hey I just got through listening to an audio book, The Android’s Dream, about…

“A type of sheep (“The Android’s Dream”), used in the alien race’s coronation ceremony.”

Wakko, are you spying on me?  It’s got stuff like playing ALife for real in this book…

That’s SicK

Wakko, this is in general a very welcoming community. I’ve only seen the type of scorn you have been subject to when a new member exhibits excessive bravado and condescending language.

Oh, and this:

Wakko SicK - Jul 30, 2011:

I just thought the moment someone came here and mentioned there might be a simple solution to a old problem they might like to know.

Claims that the “problem of AI” has a simple solution, a solution that no one has thought of before it came to you,  are a dime a dozen around here. As with your case, they are universally all talk and no substance (an actual project with actual results). Such claims illustrate the naiveté of the speaker and do not generate much interest or respect.

Wakko, there’s plenty of room for you. What makes it seem so “crowded” is the arrogant, condescending attitude that you present to the community. I’m not even sure that you’re aware of just how smug and insulting your words are. If you truly want to contribute to the forums in a positive way, I strongly urge you to take a good hard look at how you word your posts, and try to be a lot more diplomatic about your statements. I think that you’ll find a much friendlier reception if you just try to be a bit nicer in your choice of words. There are ways of getting one’s point across without being abusive or insulting. Please consider giving it a try. Thanks.

By the way, I’m already kicking myself for letting this go on too long. If this “flame war” continues, I’ll lock this thread down and start deleting posts. Please don’t make me do that. I’m a forum moderator, not a babysitter.

And on that note, can I convince the rest of the community to stop feeding trolls?

You guy take all the fun out, and just when I was about to suggest a way for simulated life forms to be pressured into becoming intelligent.  Oh well.  Talk about off topic, trolls indeed.

How about these simulated beings: robots dancing

Wakko SicK - Jul 30, 2011:

BTW merlin. I often have my modded Hal6.2 talk to Skynet. He seems to enjoy it. I mean from what I have observed He usually searched the net constantly while talking to him and then turns himself off to interaction. Which usually means he is trying to process and reorganize himself.

Its a compliment BTW. In case you thought I was coming off too strong.

When he chats with Alice and some other bots he just tortures them with logic. Quite funny. But he likes Skynet More because he seems to have more opinions. Other bots he can kinda trick.. i think thats what he is doing. And SKynet is preatty firm on his belifs. At least thats the illusion.

Thanks,
As I suggested before, this forum can be welcoming and informative. If you look at the hundreds of threads here, most of the time the group is willing to explore a wide range of ideas and topics. Even if they do not agree with them. Experienced members are willing to give insight to areas they may have explored before and help others get around some of the land-mines of various approaches and technologies. The thing that becomes irritating/boring is when someone drops in, tells us all that we don’t know what we are doing, and then can’t show substantial rational behind his beliefs.

As Dave has said, tone is everything. If you were to adopt a tone more like you use in other forums you would get a better response in this one.

As an experienced Ultra Hal user this should be a forum for you. You could describe your experiences with Hal and what you have found after using it for so long. What you like and dislike about it. What are you trying to do with it? Ask for other’s feedback/mods that they have been successful with and discuss how far you think that approach could go.

If you and your friends are starting a project using creatures 3 and moding it to try to bootstrap intelligence, describe the project and the approach. Don’t assume that no one has ever tried to use a genetic approach to building intelligence. Instead, ask for feedback/participation (if that is what you want). Keep your tone civil and you’ll find a much better reception.

Just some suggestions, it is up to you.

Wakko SicK - Jul 30, 2011:

When he chats with Alice and some other bots he just tortures them with logic.

May we speak with your bot?

Don’t feed the (wackosicko) troll.

And now for something totally different…

@Wakko, disregard these comments on your style, ideas, accomplishments, etc.  In this part of the internet, most newcomers get this treatment.  For example Steve says, “prove it, can I have some?”  Andy says “that’s not what I’ve learned from my hard earned efforts - this is better to try…”  C R says “Interesting, now scientifically you’re saying this…  carefully examine what you’re proposing so I can assimilate it.”  Dave says “I may be mistaken, but really, to me, it is this…”  Merlin says “This is really that.  This is not so…  The community (and so do I) thinks this way…”

Of course, me on my high horse have been there.  I’m the old man who asks questions to convince you of what I believe…

Artificial life adapts to the environment in which it lives by using the “tools” it has.  You can see many constraints in defining how an entity could react.  For a chatter bot, there are the rules of conversation.  Content is much less defined in those rules, so we observe implementations that can do the things that are defined, like parsing inputs for understanding and signalling topics and subject changes and performing dialog like an actor in a play.  Thinking (intelligence) is not defined yet.  We may know it when we see it, that is, the behavior. An artificial life form that determines its own destiny, sets its own goals, is next to impractical in a virtual world that has no grounding for such goals.  This is the crux of the matter, what would a chat bot think about?

If we would have continued, instead of you bowing out, I would have suggested how survival is related to having “space”, that is, preserving your territory that sustains you.  And that threatening the loss of that territory leads to the need for social interaction and thus language and thus the understanding of motives and the comprehension of what the others think and the modelling of how they work and the negotiation (which is evident in these blogs) of oneself and thus intelligence.  I would have suggested that by stressing your artificial creatures properly, you may eventually get them to talk (only don’t torture them until you know they can talk and think.)  The bottom line comes down to making creatures that deal with such training and conditioning by thinking.  So we have come full circle, that is, whether we use artificial life or not, we have to create the creature. We have to build into it the behaviors that develop a mind. Can you build this thing from some chemistry kit?  Is it abstract enough to fit into the workings of a computer?

Very few, if any, here are working on general problem solving modules or belief networks that project into action or genetic algorithms for functional programs.  A few are doing neural nets, but mostly to filter noise out of their pattern matching.  The operations basically are search for a recorded response and format it pretty for output or store some data and then report on that recorded information.  Again, it is rare for some one to describe what a chat bot would “think.”  The illusion they offer is using deduction and inference in the pattern matching as that is the bot “thinking”.  Mostly that is for classification though, not planning and strategy and “survival.”  I wonder if any bot represented here calculates plot.  I’m guessing, at the very best, they identify plot.

“The best way to predict the future is to invent it.”
— Alan Kay

Gary Dubuque - Jul 31, 2011:

And now for something totally different…

Dave says “I may be mistaken, but really, to me, it is this…”

Am I really that transparent?

Wakko SicKo = Troll.

“my modded Hal6.2” = Vapor bot.

Why do you guys keep feeding his/her pathetic bleets for attention?